Amway... Do-able?

Discussions General
#1

As you people probably know, Amway is (already) a stable MLM in Malaysia.

Currently I’ve just joined Amway after being coaxed by a good friend and colleague for the past two years. (Partially to shut him up as well.)

However when I studied the business plan they offered, it seemed too good to be true, a self supported business venture, that is RISK FREE. I admit, the ‘risk free’ part got me (well, it qualifies as risk free for the first year of membership + not being an idiot and stockpiling on stuff before you get your customers.)

On a personal level, I have never taken any products from Amway, and I was skeptical about them, that was until I learned a few series of their products are already currently ranked the top products in the globe. However not being a user myself meant a delayed time before I could tell others of the business of my own experience in this.

Prior to agreeing to join, I did a quick search online on the people’s views and comments on Amway itself. I was shocked to find SCAM labeled all over it.

However after a few reads and more reads on people’s self published blogs, articles and comments, it seems they shared somewhat the same points :

  1. Flawed logic that defies gravity.

For example, some people who failed in making any money via Amway are blaming the system of Amway and labeling it as a scam. However at a closer look, it seems that all they imply are that uplines are forcing them to buy books, CDs, attend unnecessary seminars, travel for hours just to attend a meeting, etc. One article even featured the ex wife of a broken man who lost everything (family included) and got into debts through Amway.

Where the logic flaws however is pretty funny. As the first thing I learned when my friend brought me to their meeting is that Amway is still a business, no matter how much it does not sound like a business, but it still is one, and making unnecessary investments in the wrong end of the business does not helps. In other words, it is somewhat similar to you opening your own business somewhere, you need capital to start and you need to venture into risky areas. And what all people (at least my friend’s group) tell me is that Amway is your own business and no one is forcing you to do it. If you only want a discount on getting their products, you reached your goal. If what you want is to build a stable income using Amway, your goal is the limit. So as I would put it in a simpler form, Amway is like a baby, nourish it, educate it, cherish it, hate it, abuse it. All these actions have an effect on the upbringing of the said baby. Same as this business.

  1. Inaccurate facts + the numbers don’t add up

Some of the blogs have comparisons of Amway products against stuff you can find on the hypermarket’s shelf. However, when it comes to pricing, they would compare it with something extremely inferior compared to the said Amway products. Some of them even take the most expensive Amway product (which has cheaper Amway counterparts or the product does not fit the category of the compared non-Amway product) to compare with the cheapest of things that people would not touch with a 10 foot pole (not to be taken literally). Some sites on the other hand provide wrong/outdated (thus expensive) prices that caused people to have an inaccurate perspective of Amway’s product. Some sites do even more damage to themselves by not giving any facts and cover up everything with talk and so called ‘my friend told me…’ One even claimed the average joe six pack (Aus speakers would get what I mean here) or the so called people on the street would understand Amway as a scam better than say, a professional workers (lawyer, accountants, doctor etc…) who is currently building up their Amway distributorship. And here i thought, the first things out parents taught us is not to believe strangers on the streets.

3) Pure bull****

As the title implies. Some sites dig up a court hearing where Amway was sued 30, yes, read clearly, 30 years ago for one of their distributors who was scamming millions off thousands of people for spreading his own Amway system. So basically Amway took the fall of the scamming fellow and the fellow had to face the angry mob, end of story. How does that connect with modern day Amway is a cult/scam, it absolutely does not connect. The most recent few cases are a court case in India, a government inquiry in the UK and a court case of TEAM(a group of individual distributor who for some reason can’t read the rules and guidelines cleary) vs quixtar (now Amway Global) also in the UK. In India, it was caused by a 3rd party product that failed to list their nutritional contents accurately and again Amway took the fall for distributing the said product in India, business error, common in the real world, so I’ll dismiss that. The UK government inquiry that somehow shows only a small portion of high level distributors in Amway are actually making any money in the UK, got sued by Amway in a civil suit and they already won in lower court, which UK government appeal to higher court and still Amway won again. Another side note I found is countless people sued Amway for being a ‘pyramid’ scheme, howevever anti-Amway sites never listed out that all the cases got tossed out the window later on.

After a few more checks and reads with pro-Amway sites however, I noticed these people provide me with numbers, statistics and FACTS. The most important facts that would not lie. Like a wise man once said, opinions are silenced by facts. Why anti-MLM sites can’t give me the numbers that I’m looking for, while pro-MLM sites, watchdog sites and product sites can give me that. Why are the anti-Amway sites working with an hidden agenda to ‘warn’ people of the dangers that lurk in Amway and never provided proof of anything, akin to a false prophet. With that I discredited the anti-Amway testimonies and paid the RM85 to join.

Currently, I’m a bit out of touch of how things are really going on in Miri. And so I want opinions, experiences and views of Mirians, currently in the business, those who were in the business, those currently using Amway products or have used Amway products in the past.

I would like to stress that this is an open discussion and I hope colourful languages would not be used much here. Thanks for the future inputs

#2

■■■■ la! don’t bull sh!t la…! i joined before… you pay more before you earn… how can i survive like that? … diao…

#3

And would you care to elaborate on your experience, or would you leave me hanging on “I’ll lose more than I earn”. How exactly did you ran your business is what I’m more interested in. Hope you do share :smiley:

#4

this thing cheat ppl de la…i join before too…

#5

Hi Cookie

Some years ago I was an Amway distributor. Based on my experience I would make the following points:-

  • Some of their products are very good (we still use a few items) but many of them in the UK are overpriced
  • There was heavy promotion of the ‘the system’ by organisations set up to support individuals running Amway businesses in order to help them ‘succeed’ - Tapes, books, functions etc. This represented a significant cost over time. What also transpired in the UK is that the much of the money made by ‘the leaders’ was from income generated from the system. In fact this was the issue that the UK government took Amway to Court and Amway had to make some very drastic changes to the way the business operates in the UK for it to be allowed to maintain itself here.
  • ‘Building the business’ (i.e adding people to your network) seemed to be promoted at the expense of selling the products which was seen as almost a secondary activity.
  • There was a lack of transparency about the business with enormous secrecy about how big your business is, how much income you were generating. Similarly, when presenting the bsiness to new prospects meant doing everything you can to present the business without referring to the anme ‘Amway’
  • The opportunity at a nationla level was consistently exaggerated - it was always 'we aout to enter a period of unprecednted growth - don’t miss out on it.
  • It was always emphasised that ‘absolutely anyobne can do it’ and ‘keep your dream alive’. I feel that you do need to have some special qualities and abilities to succeed in MLM which relatively few have.

I do not beleive Amway is a scam and it is a legitimate way of developing a second income but the reality is a tiny minority will make significant income from it.

#6

i ain’t sure how amway works, one of my ex-friend joined, and she turns into some crazy freak. she kept telling me that someone in her upline becomes millionaire in only 6 yrs, their talks inspire her, she wanna makes a lots of $$, she likes the ‘system’, etc, etc.

then she starts borrowing $$ around, claiming to invest in this of her ‘business’, saying its a great opportunity, only need low startup cost, anyone can do it, bla-bla-bla. that… supposedly isn’t anything of my concern, but one day i asked her to help me buy some rare collectibles, its $80 in total, and i added in $15 as petrol & thanks-for-help fees. but when i try collecting from her she says its $350, i asked why, she stated that she needs more $$ to promote/market her amway business, i told her that’s not my problem, and if she has difficulties raising even such a small amount she shouldn’t get into that ‘business’, she tried to hold my stuff as bargaining chips, i told her i will never succumb to blackmail and officially announced the friendship termination.

she never acts like that before until she joined amway. amway might say its innocent, but building somewhat a cult-like environment and giving people exaggerated, false hope is as guilty as charged.

#7

Hi PK from UK, I read about UK from the net and yes, the leaders of the IBO’s there messed up bad. The ‘system’ me and you are implying however are a bit tad different. Back here in Malaysia, the system refers to how the company Amway (the product maker) would allow you to make money through the sales of their product, not the individuals who are supposed to represent them, I read a lot about how the system works in the UK, it seems the leaders there forgot where they got their product from in the first place and used the company name Amway without digression. The cases of diamond forcing downlines to force their downlines to buy/go CD, books and seminars is massively available, floating around.

In fact this was the issue that the UK government took Amway to Court and Amway had to make some very drastic changes to the way the business operates in the UK for it to be allowed to maintain itself here.

Actually the first time, Amway was there, sued by TEAM, who claimed that they did not know they were in a Amway distributorship(odd aye? I thought the label was printed on all products) and on the second time, Amway dragged the government to court for defamation, after the governmental report that reported what you said on top. The government lost at lower courts and appealed to the higher courts, which they lost again, check any watchdog site, they provide a lot of information on past or ongoing court cases. The changes later were mostly to allow fluid sales movement in the UK. Some sort of business damage control.

  • ‘Building the business’ (i.e adding people to your network) seemed to be promoted at the expense of selling the products which was seen as almost a secondary activity.

Multi- level marketing has been stressed over and over again that it is designed to start as part time. No one should throw away anything to focus full time on MLM.

  • The opportunity at a nationla level was consistently exaggerated - it was always 'we aout to enter a period of unprecednted growth - don’t miss out on it.
  • It was always emphasised that ‘absolutely anyobne can do it’ and ‘keep your dream alive’. I feel that you do need to have some special qualities and abilities to succeed in MLM which relatively few have.

The first I agree, It’s just a way to attract more prospect by letting them dream first and suffer later, this I understand however, is in any business in the world.

The second however, I’m unsure how the UK takes it, but here, we’re taught values and attitudes we should have instead of just preaching of dreams. Indeed, Last night, the speaker just said “Don’t just dream, do it.” He said that dreaming only is absolutely useless and you should stop wasting time and quit if you’re just dreaming. Well, I would say bravo to that, as that’s how the world works.

@meevotex - your friend just broke a bunch of rules that we must follow. Once they break them they ceased to represent the company. A cult environment however is really too much to add. If you went, you would realize it’s more like old men acting like kids, having a jolly good time talking and happy… which was a major shock for me. The chanting ‘yes we can’ or stuff like that is just a morale check. Like ancient battle cries or US marines going ourah!! Except if your doing your meeting in a cathedral, like on of the anti Amway people claimed, that would be creepy. (However checked out and true. happened in one of the US states, before was found out and shut down.)

#8

you got commitment? if no, you wasting your time.
i got bunch of that thingy Amway, CNI, herb stuff…etc…etc…
the idea is great but i’m too lazy.

#9

well, honestly do u think its a good business model?

the distributor or ibo or what they called it, they take the products from amway and sell to their clients. amway recommends a mark-up price of 25-30%, but do you think you can really make that margin? note that amway has competitors like estee lauder, shisedo, centrum, usana, etc, all which have similar products. put the markup too high would make yourself look ridiculous, price too low and all your efforts maybe near worthless.

also you can join amway through paying some membership fees. if i like amway products what can prevent me from joining and grab the stuff myself instead of letting others profited by selling to me? i know several who are doing this, they just want the things for themselves. no worries about upline as there are always people trying to recruit. is it really an attractive venture if any potential customers themselves can become a distributor of their own?

around the world, do you know only which type of distributors are somehow guaranteed success? those holding sole distributor rights. amway is like issuing unlimited distributor rights. say for amway nutrilite vitamin c, as though it isn’t enough to compete with centrum, herbalife, gnc, usana, i have to worry about tons of other amway distributors again, which can be anyone on the street who have joined amway, attempting to underprice me.

as you know… mlm, the early birds get all, its too saturated now, try some richer african states instead.

#10

I still remember you’re the one promoting the Amway scheme and trying to recruit members here in MCNet not long ago…
Whats happen now since you said that it cheat people? Mind to share?

For me, basically, Amway is another of those MLM scheme i.e. members getting members, they spend and recruit more people, you get to earn more… thats what they call “easy money”. However, before you can recruit people, you have to invest in the products yourself in order to show it to others and gained their trust. For example, maybe you need to buy the water filter at RM3K+ or air filter at RM4K+ (or those health and beauty products) to show it to your relatives and friends to convince them before asking them to join. People tend to believe when they see it…
To be able to succeed, you must be very hardworking, willing to accept “no” as an answer (thick face), willing to get boycotted by friends, have extra money for initial investment and to try the products yourself, motivated (surely your up-line will motivate you)…

#11

Actually Meevotex, you got a few misunderstanding about the reward system.

note that amway has competitors like estee lauder, shisedo, centrum, usana, etc, all which have similar products. put the markup too high would make yourself look ridiculous, price too low and all your efforts maybe near worthless.

First about the price, I have no comment about the products of Amway, like artistry or nutrilite. Both have proven themselves to be world’s top products. Check it up. As for price, believe me, my mum used to buy from estee lauder and other top brands, it did not cost less than what Amway is selling if quality is a relative factor taken in.

also you can join amway through paying some membership fees. if i like amway products what can prevent me from joining and grab the stuff myself instead of letting others profited by selling to me? i know several who are doing this, they just want the things for themselves.

Actually if a prospective customer wants in for the discount, I would be too happy. After a through read of the system they offer, if your customer signs up below you, you still get a margin of benefit from him. Which to me is a win win situation.

around the world, do you know only which type of distributors are somehow guaranteed success? those holding sole distributor rights. amway is like issuing unlimited distributor rights. say for amway nutrilite vitamin c, as though it isn’t enough to compete with centrum, herbalife, gnc, usana, i have to worry about tons of other amway distributors again, which can be anyone on the street who have joined amway, attempting to underprice me.

Actually their product grown much more than just vitamin C, look it up. And Amway’s sole obvious weakness is that it runs on a honour system. We are taught not to give discounts, but if they still do it, none of my business. Plus in any business, taking a careful view is important but we still need to perform it all in a positive manner.

as you know… mlm, the early birds get all, its too saturated now, try some richer african states instead.

Acutally what your implying are illegal pryramid schemes. In MLM (the original concept, not Amway or other direct sales), the late comer always can defeat the old timer, if he’s resourceful enough. Rich African states aye? Maybe I should try south Africa :smiley:

@Howard: Commitment comes with motivation, but how long i stay commited is still a question… so let’s just say I need a constant source of motivation for that.

@HandsomeGuy: totally agree. I need to thicken my skin and be strong.

#12

estee lauder & other brands are only some of my examples, there are many other products of similar quality yet cheaper. l’oreal comes to my mind as i just checked the prices yesterday. it means you gotta take into consideration of all these rival products too when introducing amway to friends or prospective customers, which may ended up with only less than 5% profit margin eventually or no sale at all if you refuse to offer more discounts.

you are talking about prospective customers signing up under you. question is: how many of them will sign under you? for every one of these people signed under you, there may be 4000 signed under all other distributors, and those are the people you lost permanently as potential customers. in other word, your market circle is getting narrower each day.

of course i know amway products are more than just vitamin c, that is just one of my examples, i know what they are selling from this website: http://www.amway2u.com/shoppings.jsp , and to be honest, there is no honor system in business :wink: and this sentence is dreadfully wrong:

“but if they still do it, none of my business”

if they offer discount and you don’t, you lose out - its that simple. honor system does not exist in business unless with formal agreement & contract. i remember there is this mooncake from amway, if im not mistaken, my friend gave me $23/pack. i asked for 2 packs so its $46. i simply tell him one of my other friends also in amway priced me at $43, he then reduced his price to $42. am i right to say you’re facing 2 fronts; other companies and amway distributors themselves?

indeed go to botswana, gabon, angola :wink: be one of the earliest distributors, recruit 20 downlines and tada~

there you go, i take from the stats:

Company Name: Amway (Malaysia) Holdings Berhad
Launch: March 1976
Website: http://www.amway2u.com
Est. #IBOs: 195,000 (2008)
Est. Sales: 645,458,000 MYR (2008)

Stock market corporate annual report can be found here: http://announcements.bursamalaysia.com/ … 2MB%29.pdf

195,000 distributors in Malaysia yielded a total sales of RM645.5 million in year 2008
So in average, each distributor made RM3310 in sales every year
We consider they all earn the highest recommended profit margin, that’s 30%
That make it RM993 net profit per year

The calculation put that, in average, Amway distributors there earn around RM83 per month joining Amway. Astounding!

#13

My dad had to attend an Amway Seminar when my mom was giving birth to me. Nuff said…

#14

Better try Cosway la.

#15

Sad to hear that.

#16

To me, MLM or not still requires some effort and
the sufficient knowledge on how to do it right?

Just being motivated and hardworking doesn’t
guarantee you’re gonna get rich if you’re doing
it the wrong way…

I admit that the MLM business model is good
especiallly the work once, paid forever concept…

Yes, I do admit too that most if not all MLM
companies are mostly selling the dream, but
it’s not wrong because YOU CAN ACTUALLY
achieve it IF YOU put in the right effort and
strategies…

One more thing, joining an MLM company
make sure you choose the right leader to
mentor you… Choose those who have really
done it, apply the strategies that have proven
to work for them, don’t give up, keep pushing
and I’m sure anyone can do it…

Attitude is also one thing… If you’re not
someone who is a go-getter, not prepared
to do whatever it takes, not committed
enough to living the dreams then better stay
out from MLMs…

Because the road to success in MLM is really
really hard and frustrating… Don’t believe?

Try joining one and you’ll know…

However, if you really wanna try MLM do it
the internet way…

Many companies now are offering online MLM
such as:-
http://www.successuniversity.com
http://www.webprosperity.com

Some sites you can browse through for
internet MLM success are:-

http://www.daegansmith.com
http://www.magneticsponsoring.com

Don’t worry, I’m not earning any money
referring you to these sites…

These are just reliable people I listen to
while I was doing Internet MLM 2 years back…
They have made tons of money in internet
marketing and internet MLM…

Made me some money back then, but I
decided it was not for me after a few months
so I went onto something else…

Why internet MLM?

  • You don’t have to face your prospects face to face
  • You can work from anywhere with a com and internet
  • Many free and paid tools you can use to automate your
    business (This is the part where you apply and earn money while sleeping)
  • Offline maybe you find 10 prospects a day max, online
    you find 100 or more. (Leverage)

To put a long story short, i think IF people fail in MLM
is mostly the person’s own fault:-

  • not motivated enough
  • giving up after a few 'No’s
  • lazy
  • following the wrong leader
  • not committed
  • using wrong strategy
  • blaming the whole world for everything that goes wrong

After all, we’re only human… What is more
satisfying then blaming the government, the
economy, the compensation plan, the boss, the
company, the cat, the dog for the things we
do wrong and fail?

And this sort of attitude limits you from
improving… Agree?

Same payment plan, same human, same
company, same leader… If he can, why can’t I?

#17

as wat my upline told me its a chance for me to try start my own “business” where as is i am nt interest in this type of business within one year i can just return all the things back and they will pay back my subscribtion fee without asking. in the begining i also told them i will just try to sell thru the net, they tel me no problem, after i join, then they tel me cannot do like that. then i tel them i wanna to quit and ask for return my money, but they just ignore it and keep drag…Amway…cheating business…

#18

Oh like that, is your upline that is cheating lo, not Amway…
Have to understand that Amway this kind of business is run
by people, and evrybody’s integrity, personality, honesty,
way of doing things are different…

So cannot say Amway is cheating business… Just like saying
Honda is lousy car just because some Honda hit your car…

#19

Actually meevotex, I said that because for now, who am I to stop them.

However, I do feel that their product, on price alone will be a huge challenge to sell, and customers would need to get past a huge obstacle of paying more for ‘quality’ that the average joe in a suit promises. That I’m am aware of.

you are talking about prospective customers signing up under you. question is: how many of them will sign under you? for every one of these people signed under you, there may be 4000 signed under all other distributors, and those are the people you lost permanently as potential customers. in other word, your market circle is getting narrower each day.

And that’s why this is a dog eat dog world. Secure your chances :wink:

if they offer discount and you don’t, you lose out - its that simple. honor system does not exist in business unless with formal agreement & contract. i remember there is this mooncake from amway, if im not mistaken, my friend gave me $23/pack. i asked for 2 packs so its $46. i simply tell him one of my other friends also in amway priced me at $43, he then reduced his price to $42. am i right to say you’re facing 2 fronts; other companies and amway distributors themselves?

Actually according to some old timers, giving a discount would make the person lose out on a prospective customer who might abandon you as maybe in the near future you cease to provide more discount, agree? The honour system I was implying is that Amway company does not regulate their members unless after something happened, it was their operation style to allow freedom in your business and that’s the price they needed to pay.

195,000 distributors in Malaysia yielded a total sales of RM645.5 million in year 2008
So in average, each distributor made RM3310 in sales every year
We consider they all earn the highest recommended profit margin, that’s 30%
That make it RM993 net profit per year

The calculation put that, in average, Amway distributors there earn around RM83 per month joining Amway. Astounding!

Only one problem, how many of those members are actually working :wink:
In the US during 2007 alone, Amway reveal that half of their members have NEVER ordered anything after joining. So I’m not sure how much Malaysians make with those numbers. Especially with a lot of Malaysians hating MLM after all those scams that happened a few years back. If you think of it, a statement like that would damage their name in the US but they did it anyway. Why?

@Top earner - I agree that MLM is just another form of business, and the problem is most people do not treat it as a business. A business requires knowledge yes, and that’s why we are all learning something new everyday right? And yes, I agree most people fail on their own accord. My failures in the past taught me that.
Online MLM aye? I’ll check those out when I have time, and a really nice post there. You should start working as a business speaker :lol:
And to quote one of the failed Amway IBO in USA,
“The diamond promised us success if we were to follow every seminar, buy and listen every CD, read every book and buy products to be sold, and all that brought my family is pain and misery. I ended up broke and in debt. Amway is a scam people, don’t listen and you’ll personally experience it in the near future!!”

See where it goes wrong?

Edit : PS meevotex, sorry I have not been arguing with more facts. Most of my posts were made in a rushed manner and so the form of my post. When I find time, I’ll research everything people claimed or posted in this post and make more conclusions, more things for me to learn then.

@Deacan - sorry to hear that, My dad is not much different, I guess he missed me growing up.

#20

half of ibos remain inactive… that might show how they think of the ‘business’

the thing is that they promote it as ‘low startup cost’ and ‘anyone can do’, these are false. if u dont have the capital u simply cannot challenge other distributors. that of my ex-friend is an example, if it has low starting cost why borrow money around? you might again say its against amway rules but then generally no $$$/resources = no marketing/promotion = no sales = no profit = nothing, the $ you spend on marketing, delivery/fuel, etc are all from your own wallet, try asking amway or ur upline to subsidize that for you? nope, but instead all they have in minds is asking u to buy more motivational books, etc.

also if im not mistaken, amway does not allow one to sell their products in retail stores (i.e. even if i manage to attain astronomical sales volume every month, i still cannot setup a store to take such of my venture further), they claim that as the program is designed to ‘give people from all walks of life the ability to own their own business’, rules to prevent ‘an unfair advantage’ over other distributors must be present. u cant do this, u cant do that, does that mean there is a limit to my success?

well u asked why people still join amway, i took from ur first post, coaxed by friend into joining :lol: